Forum rules suggestion: About cheating accusations

[Polymeron]

As you all (hopefully?) know, publicly accusing people of cheating is not allowed on the forum. Lately I've seen a lapse in that regard, which is not good, but is generally under control.

However, a couple of issues have risen that the forum rules don't quite cover today. Normally I'd just issue a change, but I'd like to open this for debate.

One issue is, our working assumption was that accusations were not ok, but if someone was proven to have cheated, it was ok to say so. The standard was of course Word of God, in this case the admins, who ban people and put them in the Hall of Shame. So far so good, but we now know of at least one case where people were wrongly banned and, although the bans were lifted, their reputation on the forum was needlessly tarnished in the meantime. So, it may be best not to accuse specific people anyway, even if they ARE banned. Currently the rules don't really cover that.

Another issue is, accusations of bug exploitation. Bug exploitation is as illegal as any other form of cheating - the fine line between triggering a bug as a side effect and abusing it on purpose has been discussed before, and often it's impossible to prove wrongdoing. But accusations still float around the forum. It's one thing to say, "I got screwed by a bug", and quite another to say "you used a bug on purpose" - same difference between being wrong and lying, that's a world of difference there. This has caused a lot of unpleasantness, and so far I ruled ad-hoc on it, but I think it would be better to formalize it and disallow public accusations of abuse, like all other cheating accusations.

All of the above isn't to say, that we will turn a blind eye to cheating. Cheaters will be dealt with harshly. But, the way to report them is in private, not for all to see. So, that's my opinion, but I want to know what you think:

Should the "no accusations" rule be extended to bug exploitation as well?

And,

Should we allow discussing people's bans as appearing on the Hall of Shame and label them cheaters, or should this too be disallowed?

[edrinalin]

Polymeron never stops to surprise me,bravo,man!
Should we allow discussing people's bans as appearing on the Hall of Shame and label them cheaters, or should this too be disallowed?
It should be disallowed! I also do not like the name "Hall of Shame".
Really,i am not for cheating or something,this game is not a priority number one,and sitting in front of computer and thinking,how to do a thing to speed up my development seems crazy for me. Still,for me,"Hall of Shame" is much more than a game stuff! A solder who betrayed his friends or country,yes,a guy,who were sitting in front of computer and selling recourses for 0.1? For God Sake,of course not! I see people really hate these guys,this 0.1 sellers C'mon 
During my GW life i met many multi accounts,cheaters. I also met a guy,who was doing 3 gen army when 5000 points,and he was killing me,you know,kind of every day  Did i report? NO! This is a game,and it was a challenge for  me. It was not easy,but me,with my friend shut him out then after,he end up dollar. Good,yummy dollar.
So stop crying,play~~~up to my experience,no one can stop a good player,if you are really good,you will not cheat,and usually,cheater is not really good,so calm down,and stop this Police Policy,reporting and stuff! Or go back to USSR and report your neighbors coz they live better or something,i could bring another examples too,still do not want,many will not understand!

[Odd]

(1) Should the "no accusations" rule be extended to bug exploitation as well?

And,

(2) Should we allow discussing people's bans as appearing on the Hall of Shame and label them cheaters, or should this too be disallowed?

(1) Yes, I believe so.  If bug exploitation is considered "cheating", and it is enforced at all, then it should be treated the same.

(2) I think that, if someone brings up their own ban, then other's should be allowed to comment on it.

If the banned individual does not bring it up themselves, then things get a little more complex.  When do we consider them "proven guilty"?  Do we consider them absolved once the sentence is served?  I think, if you combine those two, you almost have to avoid discussing it on the forum, particularly for the short bans (which most are).

[Dutchy]

Polymeron never stops to surprise me,bravo,man!
Should we allow discussing people's bans as appearing on the Hall of Shame and label them cheaters, or should this too be disallowed?
It should be disallowed! I also do not like the name "Hall of Shame".
Really,i am not for cheating or something,this game is not a priority number one,and sitting in front of computer and thinking,how to do a thing to speed up my development seems crazy for me. Still,for me,"Hall of Shame" is much more than a game stuff! A solder who betrayed his friends or country,yes,a guy,who were sitting in front of computer and selling recourses for 0.1? For God Sake,of course not! I see people really hate these guys,this 0.1 sellers C'mon 
During my GW life i met many multi accounts,cheaters. I also met a guy,who was doing 3 gen army when 5000 points,and he was killing me,you know,kind of every day  Did i report? NO! This is a game,and it was a challenge for  me. It was not easy,but me,with my friend shut him out then after,he end up dollar. Good,yummy dollar.
So stop crying,play~~~up to my experience,no one can stop a good player,if you are really good,you will not cheat,and usually,cheater is not really good,so calm down,and stop this Police Policy,reporting and stuff! Or go back to USSR and report your neighbors coz they live better or something,i could bring another examples too,still do not want,many will not understand!

i don't think this is all about you eddy, there are other people who play this game, and you should report cheaters, people paying money here to have fun and if it get's them offhanded by a cheater it's real frustrated, don't take advantage from it, that will be selfish.

so offcourse those cheaters should be discussed, but only the cheaters,  i don't like supporters either but what ever they probably sleep better that way.

[edrinalin]

I never say i support 
I said i am not police here. I never report  Wanna report people,go and do it,i am not that kind,and it is my principle 
To be clear,i do not try to say reporting is good or bad,i just say,i am not gonna do it  Wanna catch them,go and catch,report,kill yourself,i do not care  Sir 

[Dutchy]

I never say i support 

did you even read what you wrote? because basicly.... yeah you said that, by knowing them and don't report them?
anyway i don't even wanna discuss this with you i quit realm 18 3 weeks ago becuase it is to dirty, to join 19 where are way less cheaters.
so enjoy realm 18 with those 150 other active players 

[MitioPishtova]

As you all (hopefully?) know, publicly accusing people of cheating is not allowed on the forum. Lately I've seen a lapse in that regard, which is not good, but is generally under control.

However, a couple of issues have risen that the forum rules don't quite cover today. Normally I'd just issue a change, but I'd like to open this for debate.

One issue is, our working assumption was that accusations were not ok, but if someone was proven to have cheated, it was ok to say so. The standard was of course Word of God, in this case the admins, who ban people and put them in the Hall of Shame. So far so good, but we now know of at least one case where people were wrongly banned and, although the bans were lifted, their reputation on the forum was needlessly tarnished in the meantime. So, it may be best not to accuse specific people anyway, even if they ARE banned. Currently the rules don't really cover that.

Another issue is, accusations of bug exploitation. Bug exploitation is as illegal as any other form of cheating - the fine line between triggering a bug as a side effect and abusing it on purpose has been discussed before, and often it's impossible to prove wrongdoing. But accusations still float around the forum. It's one thing to say, "I got screwed by a bug", and quite another to say "you used a bug on purpose" - same difference between being wrong and lying, that's a world of difference there. This has caused a lot of unpleasantness, and so far I ruled ad-hoc on it, but I think it would be better to formalize it and disallow public accusations of abuse, like all other cheating accusations.

All of the above isn't to say, that we will turn a blind eye to cheating. Cheaters will be dealt with harshly. But, the way to report them is in private, not for all to see. So, that's my opinion, but I want to know what you think:

Should the "no accusations" rule be extended to bug exploitation as well?

And,

Should we allow discussing people's bans as appearing on the Hall of Shame and label them cheaters, or should this too be disallowed?

lol Would you talk about rules HAHAHAHAHAH

[asus101]

lol Would you talk about rules HAHAHAHAHAH

Did you get beaten up by him in game or something? Each post you make, makes less sense.

[Polymeron]

lol Would you talk about rules HAHAHAHAHAH

This thread is for serious discussion of a forum rules change. Spam it again at your peril.